[AAR] Friday April 16th Op

I will post here the AAR on Monday.

I will say thank you to everyone that attended and will look forward to hearing everyone's feedback and comments.

Also I will say that we lose...a lot....but all in all I am seeing positive results from the Op which I will talk about on Monday.

SL's please post an AAR as well in this thread. Also PM me with who showed up in your squad on-time as well as who wactually was a part of your squads for the night.

Brashin's Birthday Bash AAR:

OK, again let me say thank you to everyone who showed up on time and those we picked up as the night went on. I know in 1 game we had 28 guys involved in 4 squads and I am not sure if that was the most we had on all night but still 4 shy of a full 4 squads ain't half bad.

What was bad was how the entire night was filled with losses. Below is the breakdown.

GAME 1
This game we had 3/4 squads join an ACQ match where we were defending against Raven. We had all bunkers up and operational and Raven just got 1 APC through the other side where I believe Ant's squad was watching. On our side we had a solid defense in place and were on our way with less than 10min left towards a potential victory. Than the Brashin Doctrine kicked in. Raven's squad had finished whatever game they were in which meant the other 3 squads had to pull out. Again this is something I will discuss in the "Lesson Learned" section. While I am pleased we followed the rule where if not all squads enter a game then the 1st squad done means everyone else back's out, I know it was a tough order to follow. And hopefully Karma would not come back to haunt us. In doing this we got a no-decision in our first game. On a side note we entered the game 1-minute later at 9:46 but still not bad as I wanted in the game at 9:45 but one of the squads was pulling someone else in (Again this is why it's important to be on-time so the whole clan is not waiting). for 1 guy as that 1 person could be holding up 27 others.

Game 2:
We attacked SVER. Now considering the MAJOR ass-whoppin we took last week, as it was the 3rd time I ever played that map, I was very impressed with how we handled the map this time. I believe we had all 4 squads in same game 2 in 1st platoon and 2 in the 2nd one. We were able to take down some bunkers as well as my squad held the AA. It was difficult to keep the AA down and bunkers as Sver has unbelievably clear fields of fire between all of their bunkers. We were also in charge of keeping the roadblocks down which was also difficult to do. Things were tough in the beginning however as the game timer was heading down to the last couple of minutes we were able to grab an APC and took 1 away from SVER, first time I ever saw that happen. We were also close to grabbing the 2nd one and we had the AA, roadblocks and bunkers still down but the time ran out and we took a minor defeat. Whoever from our clan got the APC great job, if it wasn't from our clan I do know that our clan helped play a major role as we really kept Sver occupied with all the objectives we kept down.

GAME 3:
Defending against Raven. OK another ACQ defend mission.I am liking the defend missions more and more as I feel the teams have a better idea of how to handle them. However in the end we got beat. And on our end which added insult to injury. We wound up losing our bunker in the first couple of minutes and then for the rest of the match we tried to get back while still trying to bring the AA as well as mortar batteries online. We really got rolled up on our side and what was worse was watching one of the APC go right through our gate and off to freedom. Another poin in the lesson learned section is that we not only need to do a better job of getting medics/repairmen/rocket teams for defense but also guys with APC mines to flood the road with them in case they do grab an APC they have a nasty surprise on the way out.

GAME 4:
This was another Attack on SVER and while the earlier game in the night proved to have some good progress forward this game played much like the one last week where we got the living shit kicked out of us. Couldn't make progress, we could take a bunker down only to have it overrun by Sver shortly after. Those turrets our absolute murder as any of the bunkers can basically assist the other with their fields of fire. We truly need to get into a war-room with a map and this will now be another item in the lesson learned section is assigning objectives to squads before going into a game. As well as coming up with a strategy we are comfortable with when approaching a map.

GAME 5:
Defensing against Raven. I was eager to get this game going. We had all 4 squads in the same platoon. I was thinking "OK time to turn things around with a victory" as the whole night we suffered defeat and it was really getting to me. I wanted a victory for the night as I know everyone had worked hard all night and wanted to have something positive go our way. The positive was that it was a very fun and hard fought battle. Hell there was one point where one of the Raven had an APC was driving to victory and I had to call a strike in front of it before it cleared for freedom and caught the SOB at the last possible instant. We really communicated well, kept the bunker operational, the gates were protected even though they went down a couple of times, unfortunatly 2 APC left very close together out the other side. From a MoV standpoint we had our end defended well but they took from the other side so ultimatly it was another loss for us.

At this point we consolidated into 2 squads and went into a couple of SABO matches.

First SABO match was attacking against Raven and we won in only a coupe of minutes. This had some of us feeling a little good about ourselves after going through loss after loss but still I knew that it being Sabo we should be on top of our game here.

Second Sabo match was again attacking Raven. Where we had such a quick and dominating victory the last match we completely got dominated here. To the point where they actually were spawn camping us for a little while. We tried going left, right, middle, behind, didn't matter our team of 6 couldn't get the job done. After that frustrating night we called it a night and I went back to figuring out what the hell happened.

So a couple of things to note:

Squad 1 People who showed on-Time:
Lucky-004 - good thing internet held up but go with cable bud, thanks for volunteering to be mobile repairmen
Bleubeard - good to have u with us for the night and solid all night, also good to have as a mobile repairmen
Scootie - Good to have in the group and helped FT2 all night
Mr. Future - Impressed with how u handled FT 2 as FTL
Lucasicool - U made a commitment and kept it and that was great to see, now get your voice rested so we can hear you next time.

Cass273 did not attend due to controller broken
MarcustheCarcus showed up last as he mentioned and as usual was a valuable team asset. Thanks again for letting us know you would be late and still making it in our squad appreciate the communication
HeeroBlaze - We picked him up late and did a good job helping the team out.

From what I have gathered from the other SL's here is who did not attend after posting they would:

Gutairest
Dakidx
Slaywall
Ultimaprostreet
Riddic2639
Turb Markov
Eliteassassin479 - I saw something about a hospital so hope everything is ok

Also appreciate some other members who helped fill squads out throughout the night:
Crypt
Hotdog Fingers
Killophile

So as you can see we had at least 7 people not show up which does affect how we operate. And if people do not show up on time again it hurts the squads. While it is great on paper to show 4 Full sqauds when we first started going into games each squad had about 5-7 people in it. Makes things difficult to put people into fireteams or accomplish much. II know in the first game we had a random guy in our squad who took over as SL. We eventually had to VTK this person (at least my squad did as I don't even know how to vote) b/c the guy wasn't talking, fragoing anything after multiple requests were made.

So my message is this, if you sign up please ensure you make a commitment and keep that commitment. If you are unsure then post I'm not sure so please keep me as an Alt or something. This will be something I keep in my lessons learned section.

Also if I missed your name I do apologize I try my best to take notes on the games were playing, who's in my squad and also coordinating on the MoV chat forums as well and it is a bit much but we got through it.

Some additional positives were as follows:

1) The Brashin Doctrine was followed when it came to keeping the squads together as again that is the purpose of running a multi-squad Op. If not then we would just run as 4 separate squads and go our own way. Or we could sit and wait 45-60min while everyone waits to get organized and then try to get into a game and back out and try again until it finally works. For the most part we were with at least one other MoV squad and mostly we were in the same game.

2) We started 1 minute later than I wanted to, so instead of 9:45PM we went into our first game at 9:46PM. Whoever holds that against us will be shot on sight. But seriously we entered the games on-time and this again goes to following the rules that were posted in the forum. Whether we have full squads or not we go in game as we are not waiting. Your either on-time or you wait until we finish our game to be picked back up. People will begin to realize that it is not just something we say but it is how we operate and hopefully they take that into account next time.

3) In between games we would wait less than the 10min down-time I planned. Again as soon as we backed out we would wait around 5-7min in between games and then link up and enter. Not only that but a couple of times we would spend less than 5 min linking up and getting into the next game. So again very positive in how we stuck to a time and moved forward.

4) The SL's were on time and did a good job keeping the groups organized. I know we had some grumblings in some of the squads especially when it comes to backing out of the first game. Again I have to say if you signed up for the OP that means you read and agreed to the rules and regs that were posted in the first thread. I post these for a reason. It should come as no surprise to anyone that we won't wait up for you if your late, that we will back out to get the squads together, that I don't care about how much it will hurt the overall Valor effort as my goal is for MoV squads to play together, that we play ACQ because we have a better chance to affect the outcome of the game and get placed in same platoon/game rather than a Sabo where it is very difficult, or Dom where all 4 squads could be scattered across the 4 platoons.

5) I think everyone should join me in thanking the SL's for volunteering to be a SL for the OP and also getting their groups organized. They have to get the teams organized, take headcount, work on the MoV chat. It's almost like work, and I want to express my gratitude for their assistance as without them we would have chaos on our hands.

Lessons Learned:

1) Brashin Doctrine - OK for those that don't know this means that in a multi-squad OP (lets say 3 squads) if 2 squads make it in 1 game and the 3rd squad gets placed in a diff game that once one squad finishes their game they notify the other SL's on the MoV chat which means that the other SL's who are in a game need to see if the current game they are in is less than 3 minutes they play it out. If it is more than 3 minutes they need to back out. The reason for this protocol is to keep the squads together. Prior to this level of organization here is what would happen.
3 squads try to enter a game together. Find out 1 squad didn't make it and all squads back out and try again. This is rinse and repeat until they finally get into a game, which could take a long time and cause much frustration as people are wanting to play a game and not continue to jump in and out of games.
With the Brashin Doctrine it allows the SL's to play the game with their team so at least we are gaming. Then when one squad is done the rest check the game time and back out or finish depending on what I stated above. There are some pro's and cons to this approach.

PROS:
A) Allows people to play their game even though they are not with the other Squads
B) Provides a clear set of instructions should the team not be placed in a game with it's fellow squads
C) Due to the 3 min time limit once one squad finishes a game it ensures a minimum amount of downtime. The reason for the 3 min rule is that I have already specified no more than 10min downtime in between games. Once the 1st SL finishes a game the timer begins. If we finish the 3 min game then that allows 7 min to re-kit, grab drinks, add new members and coordinate for the next match.
D) It allows the 1st SL that finishes the game to know that the rest of the clan will be backing out to squad again, and that they will not be waiting a long time. No one wants to wait 10more min while the rest of the clan plays which could cause the squad to be impatient and then they enter a diff game. Thus ensuring that for the rest of the night we will not be grouped up at all.

CONS:
A) Could impact Valor if we are close to winning a game and then 2-3 squads all back out really screwing the Valor side (again I don't care but others do and that is valid enough for me)
B) No one likes backing out of a game as there are points on the line plus they invested some time already in the game and want to see it through (again I don't care about points but I understand the concern)
C) It breaks the flow of a game. Your in a game having a good time and then BOOM, the dreaded "Everyone back out" is broadcast by the SL. I am sure this causes some resentment within the clan as peopel will think "WTF"
D) It is not looked at from a majority rules standpoint. Let me explain, If 3 squads are in the same game and the 4th squad doesn't make it and that 4th squad finishes early than the other 3 squads are then given the order to back out. Now the thought here is that we have 3 squads playing together why should we be at the mercy of just 1 squad. To this I say what if you were in the 4th squad. How long are you willing to wait? This very situation happened during the 4/16 OP We had about 10min left in our game when 1 squad finished and the other 3 had to back out. If we played it out then the squad that finished early had to wait 10min for the other 3 squads to finish, then we had to re-kit, add new guys taking another couple of min (avg time is about 5-7min) thus making that 1 squad wait a potential 15-17min before playing another game. So I ask, how long or what is a fair amount of time to have a team sit and wait?

Now here is what I suggest we do and this is based on a post Raven made below:

New addition to the Brashin Doctrine.
If you do not make it in the same game as the other squads then you still play the same game type. So if we are playing Acquisition and the squad isn't with us then do not back out and play SABo or DOM, just play a game of Acquisition. I am not sure if SABO and ACQ have the same time slotted to them but we know that if we attack on SABO we could probably win a game much much faster than we can in ACQ and that will mean there is a much higher chance that a team that plays SABO will finish faster than ACQ.

I would also like some feedback from others on how to operate. Keep in mind you dont want anyone waiting longer than 10min in between matches AND there must be time allowed to add new people/re-kit and get organized.

2) When playing Acquisition we should have the following couple of items identified on Defense:
A) Need a full-time turret-gunner. That individual is responsible for calling out Enemy positions, communicating the health of the turret and when they need assistance
B) Should have a repairmen on each Fireteam able to bring the Turret/Gate/Bunker operational.
C) Rocketmen able to knock out those APC's when they get to the gate
D) Someone with some Anti-vehicle mines to set down on the roads where the gate is. This way if they do get the gates open there is a chance we can blow em up with mines
E) Continue to push the dedicated medic. I am also seeing many instances where multiple people are running to rez a downed squadmate which means we have less guns throwing lead at the enemy. We need to do a better job of callin gout who is going to pick up who.

3) We need to go into the Strategy forum and see about how we can come up with a strategy for the maps. Also if we have 4 squads we should be able to determine who will be in charge of what through the MoV chat to say "Squad 2 u keep AA and bunkers down while Squad 1 goes for the APC"

4) Posting your availability to join an op in the forum. I think I will create an ALT section so if people sign-up and say I might be able to play I will want them to sign up for the Alt squad. That means I wont place them in one of the other squads and will keep them on the side-lines. These would be the people we would pull in after 9:40PM to help fill out squads. Perhaps this will cause more people to sign up but only one way to find out.

5) Last but not least this is the 2nd Fri night OP we have had and we did grow from week to week in participants. During the 1st Op we had 3 squads going, last week we had 4 squads. The goal for this week will be to get 4 FULL squads again as I am sure we can do this.

As always, while we didn't win a single ACQ match, I am proud of the response we had in the forums, I am pleased with the attendance in general, and am very pleased that we had a new set of SL's learn hwo to coordinate in a multi-squad OP. Just to name them again these are the SL's over the past 2 weeks that are learning how to coordinate:

Lucky-004
Nickb93
SdgRaven
Ant Rocks 09

With each week we might get new SL's that will continue to learn how to coordinate and someday run their own multi-squad Op. Their leadership and dedication is to be commended and I appreciate that. Let's continue to keep our commitments and make it 3 weeks in a row where we have even higher attendance and this time win a couple for the home team.

Please post your comments and feedback/suggestions below.

Thanks to everyone who attended the Op and specifically, my squad. Those who attended for Squad 3 were:

nickb_93
thoma_22
Acelora_spinel
sth26307
cheeseclown
C-R-O-W-N-Z
hotdog_fingers

Despite a series of very tough games, mostly against SVER, the games defending are very solid and it looks like we have the tactics for our own Map down to a 't'.
A long AAR can't really be written because it is the SL's and the clan in general that need to find tactics to be able to get those wins when attacking SVER. Unfortunately for us we barely had a chance on that map and the few times we did manage to destroy a bunker and advance we were pretty swiftly killed and the bunker was taken back down. This is true even when we began trying to hold the destroyed bunker to prevent it being repaired - the surrounding SVER squads would entirely surround us.
It seems clear from this that SVER has very good communication, or at the very least, teamwork when it comes to Acq and Valor must be better. When a Bunker is taken down, EVERY squad (this is easier when all MoV squads are in the same platoon) should advance through that weak spot, having all four squads both protecting the destroyed bunker and destroying the two on either side. I think this should be done BEFORE we attempt to get the AAA otherwise the SVER repair kits can get them back up almost immediately, which has been a large problem for us on that map.
If we can manage to communicate that well (platoon chat) then I think it would help hugely with our Acq game.

Thanks again to Brashin for organising the Op!

Those Who Attended For Squad 2 Were:

BigGrillz53
Cortezelgangster
InsaneMachine
Sotello
Crypt: No Longer MoV

A Little Struggle For Our Squad As We Where Short Handed. We Missed Two Games As We Didn't Get In And So Jumped In Sabo To Pass The Time.
My Judgment For My Sqaud Was A Little Irritation With Waits With Music Being Played On Each Wait People Were Getting Upset.
So Overall I Was Displeased With The Out Come And I Didn't Even Really Try To Run Fire Teams With Being Short Handed.
Sotello Shined Because Of His Willingness To Follow Orders And Help Out In Any Way Possible.

As For Next Time If I Squad Lead I Will Be Posting A Pre-Op Positions Post To Better Off My Team I Posted One For This Op But The Only Person Who Replied
Was Gutairest That Didn't Even Show. Lets Try To Plan More And Will Be Better Off To Get A Win.

I Want To Thank Members Of My Squad For Showing
And Thank Brashin For Privilege To Squad Lead

It was alotta fun, glad to be a part of it, thank you.
I was a last minute invite from F8L and I joined for 3 Losses.

Aquisition is still the bane of our existence, specific strat would be well worth the thought. My go left theroy has holes in it presently.

Given my squad was 7 then 6 we worked well together, but were unable to hold vehicles, nor capture them.

I STILL believe strongly that when our forward defenses fall, we ALL need be with our eyes on their prize(s), TRANSPORTS.

More often we are concerned with bunkers and AAA. We need mine the crap out of them, loadout with rockets, keep the motorpools active pursuing captured vehicles.

I can honestly say I hate that map attacking/defending, but I suppose tis' the impetus to improve.

People who attended

Austin
Fatal
bluehens
Drgiggles
me

Kilo (later)
Pat(briefly)

My whole squad disagreed with leaving that one aqui match. we still had a big chance to win it but instead we left Valor with an empty squad and a high chance of losing. We had good communication but some random kept driving our apc away. We held our bunker well in the first game of aqui but all the squads around us got pushed back and we had no support so we were forced to retreat.

Overall it was fun.

Updated AAR and Lesson learned earlier today

Big thanks to all the sl's and especially to brash.

Ant_rocks_09 wrote:

My whole squad disagreed with leaving that one aqui match. we still had a big chance to win it but instead we left Valor with an empty squad and a high chance of losing. We had good communication but some random kept driving our apc away. We held our bunker well in the first game of aqui but all the squads around us got pushed back and we had no support so we were forced to retreat.

Overall it was fun.

I was totally a part of that! We were very disappointed to leave Valor. It must have been an ugly match for the rest of Valor... I think if we had stayed, we could have won! we had a good run going. The other reason i was disappointed was bc i hate going in the lobby, then bam u see one whole squad just leave. once that happens, the game is over...no matter if the other 3 squads are done. MAG is numbers...its 256 for a reason! I am no quiter. and i still dont know exactly why we did leave? was it bc we were losing? if were losing, thats no reason to quit! Other then that, the night was fun. Losses are losses. Its ok, no problem for me! as long as i have fun and play well, im happy!

Fatal, we left because of the below reason, which is posted above. This brings up another good point. When people sign up for an OP apparently they are not reading all the stuff I am posting in the original thread. It is clearly stated how I plan to operate in the OP so there would be no surprises. If people read it hopefully it would have been an easier pill to swallow but I'm not sure, at least it wouldn't have been a surprise.

1) Brashin Doctrine - OK for those that don't know this means that in a multi-squad OP (lets say 3 squads) if 2 squads make it in 1 game and the 3rd squad gets placed in a diff game that once one squad finishes their game they notify the other SL's on the MoV chat which means that the other SL's who are in a game need to see if the current game they are in is less than 3 minutes they play it out. If it is more than 3 minutes they need to back out. The reason for this protocol is to keep the squads together. Prior to this level of organization here is what would happen.
3 squads try to enter a game together. Find out 1 squad didn't make it and all squads back out and try again. This is rinse and repeat until they finally get into a game, which could take a long time and cause much frustration as people are wanting to play a game and not continue to jump in and out of games.
With the Brashin Doctrine it allows the SL's to play the game with their team so at least we are gaming. Then when one squad is done the rest check the game time and back out or finish depending on what I stated above. There are some pro's and cons to this approach.

PROS:
A) Allows people to play their game even though they are not with the other Squads
B) Provides a clear set of instructions should the team not be placed in a game with it's fellow squads
C) Due to the 3 min time limit once one squad finishes a game it ensures a minimum amount of downtime. The reason for the 3 min rule is that I have already specified no more than 10min downtime in between games. Once the 1st SL finishes a game the timer begins. If we finish the 3 min game then that allows 7 min to re-kit, grab drinks, add new members and coordinate for the next match.
D) It allows the 1st SL that finishes the game to know that the rest of the clan will be backing out to squad again, and that they will not be waiting a long time. No one wants to wait 10more min while the rest of the clan plays which could cause the squad to be impatient and then they enter a diff game. Thus ensuring that for the rest of the night we will not be grouped up at all.

CONS:
A) Could impact Valor if we are close to winning a game and then 2-3 squads all back out really screwing the Valor side (again I don't care but others do and that is valid enough for me)
B) No one likes backing out of a game as there are points on the line plus they invested some time already in the game and want to see it through (again I don't care about points but I understand the concern)
C) It breaks the flow of a game. Your in a game having a good time and then BOOM, the dreaded "Everyone back out" is broadcast by the SL. I am sure this causes some resentment within the clan as peopel will think "WTF"
D) It is not looked at from a majority rules standpoint. Let me explain, If 3 squads are in the same game and the 4th squad doesn't make it and that 4th squad finishes early than the other 3 squads are then given the order to back out. Now the thought here is that we have 3 squads playing together why should we be at the mercy of just 1 squad. To this I say what if you were in the 4th squad. How long are you willing to wait? This very situation happened during the 4/16 OP We had about 10min left in our game when 1 squad finished and the other 3 had to back out. If we played it out then the squad that finished early had to wait 10min for the other 3 squads to finish, then we had to re-kit, add new guys taking another couple of min (avg time is about 5-7min) thus making that 1 squad wait a potential 15-17min before playing another game. So I ask, how long or what is a fair amount of time to have a team sit and wait?

Now here is what I suggest we do and this is based on a post Raven made below:

New addition to the Brashin Doctrine.
If you do not make it in the same game as the other squads then you still play the same game type. So if we are playing Acquisition and the squad isn't with us then do not back out and play SABo or DOM, just play a game of Acquisition. I am not sure if SABO and ACQ have the same time slotted to them but we know that if we attack on SABO we could probably win a game much much faster than we can in ACQ and that will mean there is a much higher chance that a team that plays SABO will finish faster than ACQ.

nick it was definatly fun bein in your squad even thou we got are asses handed to use in a couple of matches

thanks again for running a great op Brashin. Also thank you for allowing me to be late. I don't work very often but when I do it can become a very late ordeal. We had an emergency to clean up on Friday night because a fire suppresion system went off inside a dragline (huge mining shovel) and needed to be cleaned up before we went home. hopefully if I work this friday it'll be a shorter day and I'll be on time to the op.

Brashin wrote:Lessons Learned:
C) Rocketmen able to knock out those APC's when they get to the gate
D) Someone with some Anti-vehicle mines to set down on the roads where the gate is. This way if they do get the gates open there is a chance we can blow em up with mines

I really think these two points are critical to ACQ games. I've seen players use AT mines a lot in ACQ, both in front of and behind gates, as well as right in front of where the ACQ Vehicles are. I'd be happy to be an AT miner once I get a couple more levels (they can actually get some rake in some good xp, 10xp for vehicle, 5xp for driver killed, double that near FRAGO.

Rockets seem pretty self explanatory. Grenades can also be pretty useful, especially since ACQ vehicles are affected by any damage.

Sure do hope we do better these next couple of ACQ ops.